Are Your Students Thinking—or Just Complying?

Podcasts & Interviews
Written By Gretchen Wegner

What if a student looks completely engaged—taking notes, following directions, doing exactly what the teacher asked—but isn't actually doing much thinking?

In this episode of the Academic Coaching Podcast, I talk with Ashlee Doty, founder of Uncomplicate Ed, about the difference between behavioral, emotional, and cognitive engagement—and why compliance can so easily masquerade as learning.

Ashlee shares what she discovered while observing students taking notes in a high school chemistry classroom, and how one small change to the note-taking process could shift more of the thinking from the teacher to the students.

We also talk about why teachers and academic coaches might need to talk less, get more comfortable with silence, and give students more control over their learning—including a playful trick that lets students decide when the teacher stops talking!

And we discover a rather astonishing coincidence: We both started our education careers working for the same educational theater company, years apart!

Because maybe the question isn't just, "Are students doing what we asked?"

Maybe it's: "Who's doing the thinking—and how do we know?"

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Listen to the Podcast

One of the things we practice inside the Anti-Boring Learning Lab is figuring out how to explain just enough to get students into meaningful action.

Our coaches rehearse short mini-lectures, experiment with learning strategies, and get feedback on how to create more room for students to do the thinking themselves.

That's why I loved this conversation with Ashlee. Whether we're teaching a classroom full of students or coaching one student at a time, the challenge is similar: How do we scaffold learning without doing all the cognitive work for them?

And if the chemistry classroom story has you rethinking note-taking, I'm also teaching two masterclasses this fall: Beyond Cornell: Non-Annoying Note-Taking Systems That Work and Beyond the Highlighter: Smarter Skim & Summarize. We'll explore how to move students beyond copying and highlighting toward more intentional, effective ways of processing information.

Both masterclass recordings are included in Anti-Boring Learning Lab membership, along with our Anti-Boring Toolkit, coaching practice opportunities, and professional community.

Explore our Upcoming Note-Taking Masterclasses →

Questions This Episode Answers

What's the difference between a compliant student and a cognitively engaged student?

Ashlee explains three kinds of engagement: behavioral (doing what's asked), emotional (feeling interested or curious), and cognitive (actually thinking about and processing information).

During classroom observations across six campuses, Ashlee and a team of school leaders saw plenty of students following directions. But when they tried to determine whether students were thinking, they often had to conclude, "Not enough evidence to determine."

A student can look busy and cooperative without necessarily doing the mental work that supports learning.

Can students take notes without actually learning?

Absolutely—and Ashlee shares a revealing example from a high school chemistry classroom.

The teacher was enthusiastic, knowledgeable, and excellent at explaining complicated concepts. But while he talked, students were copying his slides word for word.

Ashlee and the school leaders proposed a different approach: Let students listen first, pause to summarize or sketch what they understood, and then compare their notes with the teacher's.

Now students have to retrieve, synthesize, and check their understanding instead of simply copying.

And if the goal really is just to provide students with a record of the material? Maybe give them the notes and spend the saved time teaching them how to study!

Why should teachers and academic coaches talk less?

Because sometimes our enthusiasm for explaining gets in the way of students doing the thinking!

Ashlee noticed teachers doing a lot of talking during classroom observations. And I recognized the pattern immediately from my own coaching.

Inside the Anti-Boring Learning Lab, we practice delivering 10-minute mini-lectures, focusing on the least we need to say to get students into effective action.

Ashlee also reminds us to get comfortable with silence. Students need different amounts of processing time, and the fastest person to answer isn't necessarily the person doing the most learning.

What if students could decide when the teacher stops talking?

One of my favorite parts of our conversation was brainstorming ways to give students more control over the pace of learning.

I shared a trick I use in one-on-one coaching: Give the student a timer, let them decide when it goes off, and don't ask them to tell you!

When the timer rings, the adult stops talking and everyone pauses. Maybe it's time to stretch, check understanding, or simply notice how their brains are doing.

Ashlee and I started imagining how the same idea could work in classrooms.

It's playful, but there's a deeper purpose: Students get to participate in deciding what they need instead of always following the adult's lead.

How can students learn to advocate for what their brains need?

One reason I was excited to meet Ashlee at ResearchEd was that she was talking about teaching students how their brains learn—not just teaching educators how to use learning science.

Imagine a student recognizing that they need a moment of retrieval practice before moving on to new material. Or asking for another minute to process their notes.

We talk about how educators can make space for those requests and help students recognize which strategies support their own learning.

The goal is to develop learners who can increasingly make those decisions for themselves.

Why do movement breaks matter—even when students don't want them?

Ashlee and I laugh about how even adults resist movement breaks during professional development workshops.

But sitting and concentrating for long stretches can be demanding, and students benefit from opportunities to move and reset their attention.

We share practical ideas for building movement into learning, including my slightly quirky suggestion to leave your phone outside your study space, on the floor, so checking it requires getting up and changing position.

The larger lesson? Students need opportunities to experiment with what helps them regulate their attention, rather than assuming that sitting still longer always means learning more.

How is cognitive science changing what teachers are expected to do?

Ashlee shares an encouraging development in Florida: updated educator standards now explicitly include cognitive science principles, including retrieval practice.

We discuss why that's exciting—and why educators sometimes get so focused on covering individual standards that they lose sight of the bigger question: How do humans learn?

Whether we're teaching chemistry, coaching executive function skills, or helping students study independently, understanding how learning works can inform the choices we make.

About Ashlee Doty

Ashlee Doty is the founder and CEO of Uncomplicate Ed, where she helps educators and leaders turn research into practical, usable instruction.

A former teacher, instructional coach, assistant principal, principal, and principal coach, Ashlee has spent more than 20 years in education. Her work focuses on cognitive science, instructional clarity, and helping schools create learning experiences that are both rigorous and accessible.

She presents nationally, works with schools and districts across Florida, and is passionate about uncomplicating education so teachers and leaders can focus on what matters most: student learning.

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Gretchen Wegner
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